Building Trust and Culture: The Evolving Role of EHS Professionals

Hilary Framke:

Hello listeners, it’s Friday and you are here again listening to the Elevate EHS podcast. Thank you for being here. I love my listeners. Thank you for all the great comments. I have a new guest on with me today. Pretty excited about this. Scott is a pretty cool guy. Hi Scott. Welcome to the Elevate EHS podcast.

Scott Ellis:

Hi everybody. Welcome. I’m so glad to be here. This is going to be a lot of fun today.

Hilary Framke:

I love the energy. Scott, you have had quite the EHS career. You’re coming to the end of it. Some of us have a long way to go like me, many years and problems to arise and issues to solve, but you’re at the tail end of it.

And this, to me, is so intriguing to think about what EHS was like when you started your career, how that landscape has evolved over time. So let’s maybe start with that.

Scott Ellis:

Hilary, thank you first off, giving the opportunity and creating this forum for everyone to chime in and be able to gain and grow as we go forth.

When I started in EH&S, I could not spell EH&S. I had no idea what it was about. Believe it or not, I was a fireman and an EMT. That’s when I started EH&S. But I gotta give you a little bit of a step back into that process and let you know how I got there.

Started out in the service as an aircraft electrician. Working on Air Force airplanes from B-52s, KC-135s, 1 Huey helicopters, B-1B aircraft, F-16s, the older model F-16s, okay, cause I’m an old guy.

When I got out of the service got married, got out of the service. Went back to my hometown of Selma, Alabama and went to work at a defense department contractor. Worked for about 10 years in that aspect being an aircraft electrician. And then got a chance to get into safety.

I was the young buck on the team so I had the strong back and I didn’t know anything, couldn’t spell anything. And in turn, got the opportunity to get into the environmental side. Worked in the hazardous waste, water treatment area. I was a guy that would go around pick up the drums, make sure we were putting the right waste into the right container.

That was the door that opened it for me. I got the opportunity to learn from state regulators, from a fantastic mentor that was much older than I was. And who taught me everything he knew about environmental health and safety. First he taught me how to spell it and then he taught me what it actually meant.

What I thought was harsh in the beginning was actually the stepping stones to lead me down to the further aspects of my career.

Hilary Framke:

Do you think that the outlook on EHS for businesses has changed over the course of your career?

Scott Ellis:

Significantly! That’s a fantastic question to ask because in the beginning from my vantage point, it’s important to realize that where we began in the early to late 90s and early 2000s with the implementation and the full execution of OSHA and EPA and all of their particular regulations. And then you add the states who added their particular takes on regulations like California, Washington.

It’s similar. Where I’m going with this is, it made it so much more, I’m not going to say intense. Due to the fact that everybody wants to go home with the same bells and whistles.

Hilary Framke:

Yeah.

Scott Ellis:

Different administrations, different government agencies, different government leaders want to be able to go and show, Hey, this is the impact I made on my community.

When you think about it we really do make an impact on our community. It’s huge, the impact that EH&S professionals make on their community. They’re sending folks home with the same fingers and toes that they came to work with. They’re sending them home to their families. They are doing things that really make a difference.

They’re also helping their companies with the regulatory compliance. And it’s just the right way to do business. It really is. It’s the right way.

Hilary Framke:

I find too Scott, that something has changed too, in businesses that they’re starting to see that if they do EHS right, like at the bottom of this Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, if you do EHS right, they build a strong human centric approach to the culture. And a human centric way of doing business. Employees don’t have to worry, Oh, I have to step over this cord so I don’t trip. Oh, I’ve got to pick up this guard and it’s really heavy. And Oh, I got to watch out for that.

When they don’t have to worry about those things, they can focus on their jobs. So they actually do a better job, production wise, operations wise, quality wise. The business makes more money and we’re more successful.

Scott Ellis:

You hit on some key points there that I want to expand on just for a second. First off, is this the right thing to do? Okay, because we as companies and we as EH&S professionals have a great asset we can bring to the table to our business leaders. We can help them shape the business by doing it right, making sure we’re in compliance cause that affects the morale of the employees that are working for us, the team members that are with us.

If we’re showing them the guys and gals that are working on the hangar floor or the production line floor or the manufacturing line. If we’re showing them that we are looking out for them, number one. Number two, we’re looking out for the community that we live and operate in. That’s a humongous type of endeavor for a business to take. Many times in my career I have been successful in showing that we are a good corporate steward of taking care of our employees. Taking care of the environmental resources, the machinery, the people that are around us and we’re providing our companies a good reputation for the community that we work in. That makes folks want to come to work for us.

The other key points. We’re putting out a good, safe, quality product. We’re providing good quality, safe services. We’re making it better than we found it or than when we took it over. So those are critical points in which you were presenting there.

Hilary Framke:

Yeah, it’s such an interesting topic. Because there’s so much to be said about building integrity as a business. And when we make all these corporate statements about, we are this, and we value this, and this is a priority, and this is the type of business we want to be. But at the crux of it, if as an employee I don’t feel my supervisor cares if I cut my finger, lose a finger, get hit in the head, slip and fall. If those things aren’t important to my leader and every time my leader comes out to the production line they’re saying, how many products did we make today? How are things going? Have we hit all of our quality metrics, et cetera. I now know where I sit as an employee in that value stream.

Scott Ellis:

You talk about the value stream there and we as EH&S professionals have a tremendous part to play in developing the value stream. We talked about integrity earlier. If we’re spot on with what we’re presenting, we’re regulatorily correct. And the matter that we’re presenting to our leaders and to our fellow teammates that are out on the production floor, the hangar floor, wherever it may be, that is crucial for the success of the organization itself. Because if we as EH&S professionals present, not as a credible source to our employees, to our leaders, then we lose face. We lose credibility. The trust factor then goes down. Then the value stream is not there. We as EH&S professionals can truly make and or break the success of an organization. Any organization can turn around and hit numbers on a piece of paper. But it takes the people and them having trust, value and integrity with those leaders around them.

That really make a difference. A point in case many organizations, from my understanding struggled during the initial onslaught of COVID cases back in 2020. A lot of it had to do with the credibility that they presented. That was a very trying time for the EH&S professionals.

We all learned a lot. I’m going to be the first one to raise my hand and say, yes, I learned a lot. It showed me the value that I can have with my leaders, with my teammates if I present calmly, with credibility, integrity, honesty all those buzzwords that make a difference.

Hilary Framke:

Absolutely. I just think if a supervisor can come out to the line and can say, how’s it going out on the floor today? How are you feeling? Has anything gone wrong either like an incident or have you seen any hazards today, any quality issues, et cetera. Anything you want to talk to me about. You can ask those questions first, then get to the product. How’s it going on the line? How does the product look today, et cetera. Again, it builds exactly what you’re saying, Scott. It builds this correct value stream about, we’re people first business.

If that’s what we’re saying, then we need to live out with our talk, with our walk, with everything that we do. And if an employee brings forward something, and it is a recognized hazard. And that isn’t given the right amount of importance and urgency. This shows the employee our level of integrity.

You can say up at corporate meetings all you want, safety is so important. But if an employee walks in every day and sees the hazard that they identified is still unresolved. That guard, I told you it was like a hundred pounds. We’re lifting it 10 times a day because this machine is jamming.

That’s never getting talked about at all these tier meetings we have. It’s never getting addressed. I don’t really believe you. I don’t believe that we’re a people centered business. I don’t believe that safety comes first because of these things that I’m seeing in our activity.

Scott Ellis:

And you’ve got to take it one step further with that. Yes, you have to show action. And the first step to that is communication. To be able to critically help the employee that is on the floor, no matter what floor that is, and show them that you mean business. Even if you have to tell them today, hey, it’s not in the budget today to fix this, but we have it in a plan of action next quarter.

It is the first thing we purchase next quarter if we need a piece of equipment or something of that nature. Additionally you can take it one step further by, why not talk about the things that are important to that employee, to that team member, just for a moment. How is your wife? How is your husband? How is your child that may be sick? If you know that they’re struggling with something on a personal level. That makes a difference in your ability to become credible with that employee when you’re talking about other things. Many different leaderships tell you, get to know the employee, know the team members, know how they take care of things. Make sure that you are also taking care of yourself. Okay. Because I know if one hair is out of place when I come to work, folks are going to tell me about. If I’ve got something on my shirt, they’re going to tell me about it.

Remaining focused about what’s happening, what’s going on, makes a difference. Even if you don’t have the answer, say, I can get back to you by this date. And then get back to them by that date to say, okay I have a meeting this week with the bosses. And let me get an answer at that time on what we can do and what we can’t.

Hilary Framke:

That’s the trust piece though, isn’t it? And I love what you said about holding yourself as an EHS leader accountable to these ideals. I’ll say from personal experience. Cause I’ll just use my own story here. And it’s something I learned only recently. We’re talking mental well being. And you’re a leader and you’re saying to your team, I need you to have a good work life balance. I need you to do stress relieving. Don’t schedule your meetings back to back, take breaks, look out for yourself.

I don’t want you to be stressed. I don’t want you to be burnt out. And then I’m turning around and taking meetings from 5 a.m. until 7 at night. And then working from 7 until 11 on my own projects and then getting up and doing it again. Never taking PTO, never taking vacation when you’re a global director in EHS. And my team would call this out to me.

Scott Ellis:

Well,

Hilary Framke:

It’s all fine and good for you to say it to me, you don’t live the values.

What I realized, was just how damaging that is. Because that is my own integrity as well. That’s my personal integrity. And if I can’t live it up, if I can’t be a representation of that and be a role model for that, I lose my credibility as well.

So finally in the last year I’ve learned how to have work life balance. I’ve taken on some hobbies. I’ve worked on my personal health and wellbeing. I’ve made some significant changes.

It makes you such a more well balanced leader, doesn’t it?

Scott Ellis:

It very much does. And because it’s from my own experience over the last five years. For a couple of years of I really worked on making sure I lived up to what I said I was going to do. Point in case being, last year’s OSHA safe and sound week during the month of June. It is important that we did something no other organization had done.

I went out and bought ice creams, just a little popsicle ice cream.

Hilary Framke:

Yeah.

Scott Ellis:

We turn around and took inputs from the employee. If you gave us an employee on something that they were concerned about with EH&S, we gave them an ice cream. We gave them a little card to fill it out, then we put it up on the bulletin board and showed them the progress of where that is being done and taken care of. It was 60 bucks for the ice cream, 60 dollars.

Hilary Framke:

Yeah, nothing.

Scott Ellis:

Nothing. But what we gained from that is worth its weight in gold in the impact that it had on employees. We had senior leaders come at a later time and ask us and they took pictures of it. And they wanted to know why other organizations were not doing that. But that’s the professional side, but in the personal side, during the last several years by living up and doing what I said I was going to do, I put more focus on my family.

When I said we all have crises I’m sure. The phone rings at varying times, and we need to take care of something. That withstanding, trying to have that focus, and like you said, not take meetings at O Dark Hundred in the morning until O Dark Hundred at night. It gives everybody a chance to say, okay, let’s take a breath. Instead of being oh, my word, Scott’s calling at seven o’clock at night. That should be the time you’re at home with your family. Should be the time that you’re going to the little one’s baseball game or the softball game or depending upon where you are in the country, hockey or soccer or whatever it is with the family.

It’s also that time frame that you should be doing something with your animals, your own exercise. I have not done well with in recent years. And that is making sure I get out and take a walk.

Hilary Framke:

Yeah, it makes you a better leader. And I think no matter what you say, your team is always going to emulate your actions. They’re always going to feel that’s your expectations, how you conduct yourself. So if I’m sending out emails at nine o’clock at night, and I always say to my team, don’t feel like you have to respond outside of business hours, they’re still receiving the email and they’re still going to feel like they’ve got to read it.

They feel that loyalty and responsibility. I feel I need to read this. It’s from my boss. I’ve got to respond. So I’m constantly asking them to step outside, the mental health and wellbeing that I want them to maintain. So that was real game changer for me, realizing that the integrity, the moral fiber that we have in EHS, is so much deeper than just like having the value system and pushing that with your business and maintaining all the things that we have to ethically maintain between regulatory, compliance and engagement, et cetera. It’s further than that. It’s your own personal integrity and the choices that you make and how you conduct yourself.

Let’s shift gears a little bit, this discussion really highlights to me the critical importance of EHS, not just within the workplace but also inside the context of personal health and wellbeing. So why don’t you elaborate for me on your thoughts about how EHS transcends the workplace and integrates into our daily lives?

Scott Ellis:

That really is a wonderful question to ask because we as EH&S professionals, I don’t think we do enough of that.

Point in case. We as a group only get involved in somebody’s personal being and health when something’s gone wrong, there’s an accident or we’re trying to make sure we get the right type of medical exam done. But how many times have we set up a health fair? Or an outside agency to come in, do some blood pressure checks, do a blood sugar check, or provide information to employees on how to take care of themselves. We actually went out to the local community college and to the State Department of Health and had them come in and do health checks for us, in our main buildings itself. We also had other agencies come in such as the State Environmental Management Agency, the State Emergency Management Agency, the Federal OSHA team come in and give talks on varying types of subjects. One of the greatest things that we can do as EH&S professionals, you may not get 500 people to come to an event, you may only get 30.

But those 30 talk to 30 more, and then those 30 talk to 30 more, and it continues to a pyramid type of an effect. And this is the good kind of pyramid scheme. This is where folks will be able to come back and say, Scott gave us something. The EH&S team gave us something that we can actually take home and use. We as EH&S professionals need to do more of that. We have lunchtime, break times. What’s really important is taking that time, make yourself available when they want to talk, walking from one work center to the next.

Hilary Framke:

Yeah.

Scott Ellis:

Choose the opposite race car driver or a football team or baseball team. Choose the opposite one to the person that you know likes and have a conversation.

Yeah.

Because then that credibility that you build and the rapport that you build with them, shows that employee you’re interested in them. You’re bringing them information that is valuable so that they can go home to their wives, daughters, sons, grandkids, puppy dog, whatever the case may be because that’s what we want at the end of the day.

Hilary Framke:

And I think because this is the critical piece. Team building is trust building and if the employees don’t trust each other, they won’t look out for each other. They won’t care for each other. Which we know in EHS is such an integral part of having culture that’s EHS minded, that I want to look out. We may not be friends. But I look out for you and I see hazards maybe in your area. I see when you’re not wearing the right personal protective equipment. I see when you’re not following the right process. And I’m going to feel confident and comfortable because we’re a team and I don’t want to see you hurt.

EHS professionals should not underestimate how much team building actually drives EHS. Doing things like, we’re all going to go on a hike.

And we’re going to sponsor it. Everyone from the business is invited to come. It’s going to be three miles. We’ll walk together. We’ll take a picture at the top at the end of the hike we’ll blow this picture up. And it’s not only a physical health thing, but it’s a team building thing,

it’s a memory that we’re making as an organization. I wish more businesses would do things like introduce employees to new hobbies for mental health. Hey, this lunch and learn, we’re going to learn how to knit. We’re going to learn how to play chess. We’re going to learn how to play cribbage.

We’re going to introduce and expand your social prowess, to help you make friends and to give you a new hobby which is great for your mental health, but then also the team building. The experience of being together and seeing each other as more than just a colleague.

And I think this is one of the metrics that EHS leaders should think more about. How does this department participate in the EHS program? How many of the employees in that department participate?

How many have put in a hazard identification? Not the required things, but choosing to participate. Went to an EHS event that was non mandatory, participated in an incident investigation, a risk assessment, did a Kaizen, all those things.

Actually ask yourself what percentage of that department is choosing to participate. Then secondly, how visible is the EHS program to this department? So what are they seeing us come through for inspections? Are they seeing changes made? Do we have metrics up for them to take a look at? Do we have infographics, training elements?

How do they feel connected? That twofold question. If you’re asking yourself that and you’re making activities based on those responses, you’re going to grow your culture. Because it’s shocking to me how many times I went into a space, let’s say I walked into a lab space. And I’m introducing myself, I’m talking, we’re walking through and the researcher says, I’ve never seen a health and safety person in here.

I didn’t even know we had one. This is great. Thank you for your remarks. No matter how minuscule, maybe we shouldn’t put glass up on the top shelf where when it falls, it breaks. Let’s put a little guard on the front and put it on a lower shelf to have a lower probability of glass break. It doesn’t have to be monumental. It’s just showing that you care, it’s partnering. It’s having that visibility that grows your culture.

Scott Ellis:

I want to expand just a little bit further on something that you’ve said. And that was the ability to change the culture from, I have no idea who the EHS person is to being that go to person. That is in a roundabout way, we’re mandated to do as EHS professionals. We need to be that go to person for the employee that’s on the hangar deck floor or the production line. Because we want them to be able to communicate with us. We want them to be able to feel comfortable with us with no fear of reprisal or getting in trouble or anything of that nature.

So I wanted to really bring that back out because, my hope and desire from a part of this podcast is for that young EH&S professional to be able to come back and take a look at this and say, okay, they’ve got two great people on the line talking to them. But say, okay, wait a minute.

 I need to be that safety person that helps mentor, guide and show them the right way to do it. As I went into new sites and new locations, that’s one of the questions I ask. And that is, how often did you see your safety person in the past?

If we were to go to a new contract at a new facility. Many times I heard, we have safety? What are you talking about? Changing that.

Hilary Framke:

Yeah. And I think it’s being strategic about that, Scott. Strategic about the touches.

It always was a question of mine to what percentage are you out on the floor and visible versus in your office and meetings. You have to work hard to make that 50-50. I know that it’s difficult but schedule time, block time, figure out how to get out onto the floor. And, this is being a part of meetings that they’re having just being a guest.

It’s being present. It’s doing walkthroughs. It’s checking on corrective actions. It’s doing MOCs, risk assessments. I don’t care what activities you do but be visible and connect with people and talk with people, and push that visibility. Then the next step is to figure out how you’re going to get other people, other leaders in the organization to be recognized as EHS people, because we know, you cannot be everywhere all at once. And if they’re waiting for the EHS person to come through to tell them something. This is a losing strategy. Because you’re never going to be able to be present enough. So how do you give those frontline leaders, those supervisors, and then even, further up the ranks, how do you give them enough EHS know-how, knowledge and participation to get the employees to see them as extensions and to know that they can go to their frontline leader and talk about EH&S topics.

Scott Ellis:

That’s an interesting question because that’s something, a very experienced organization with the team that has been in place for a long time. They do rather well with. But a new team coming into play, they struggle with that from time to time. And there’s a couple of things we have learned through experience over the years as EH&S professionals, technology has changed.

You take your cell phone with you. They have all the apps and all of the different types of things where you can have a teams meeting and attend a teams meeting from the hangar deck floor, from the production line floor. Okay. You can do that, but then having the employees see you do that and see that you’re taking not only an interest in them, but being part and presenting their information to it is critical. Okay, because that helps to shape how they perceive you as an individual, as an EH&S professional. When I began my EH&S career, we had a flip phone or a walkie talkie, okay? We had that around us. Not anymore. You can do inspections from a cell phone, you can take a picture of it. Documentation.

Hilary Framke:

But here’s why that’s important because that’s a guidebook for non EHS people to participate because anybody can follow a checklist.

Anybody can follow an incident report that’s laid out on their device.

Scott Ellis:

Why that accessibility is important, is you help develop your credibility, which leads to the trust, which builds the safety culture around you so that you can say, okay, wait a minute, we need to look if the metrics indicate the leading and lagging indicators, give us something that says we need to address, then we can approach it.

 I know what are the most important ways for me to spend my time because the technology has pulled together all the corrective actions. It’s been ranked by severity. I know I need to go deal with this one first. And then I know I can get on this app and I can go see which ones are next. And start workflow optimization, to spend that EHS time that I do have and spend it well in a way that’s impactful.

Well Scott, I think this has been amazing. We went down a lot of different rabbit holes than I expected. But all awesome. And I think great conversations to have about how to actually apply EHS in a human centered way. In a way that drives trust, drives credibility and culture. So thank you so much for your insights, for everything that you’ve done in your career, all the people that you’ve helped and thank you for being on the podcast today.

I have had a tremendous blast. And I look forward to potentially doing it another time. But I thank you for what you’re doing because this really gives us as EHS professionals a forum to be able to look and learn and grow from.

So thank you so much.